In this episode with Cynthia, from Learn and Live Letter, we talk about deschooling and help you understand why you may need to deschool yourself as a homeschooling mom...
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Connect with Learn and Live Letter on IG.
This Episode Discusses:
What deschooling is.
How to know when you and/or your children need to deschool.
Tips to help you throughout the deschooling process.
Why deschooling allows for a more successful homeschooling experience.
DON’T HAVE TIME TO LISTEN? HERE’S THE EPISODE ALL TYPED OUT:
Lets face it…Being a homeschooling mom who also works from home can be pure chaos! As you’ve probably already noticed, despite the occasional laugh track, life isn’t a sitcom and everyday struggles are rarely resolved in 30 minutes with commercial breaks to keep your sanity in check so the right strategies and mindset are vital for becoming more productive and less overwhelmed with all the things life throws at us. Enter the Simply Freeing Podcast…Episodes for the highly passionate, busy work at home, homeschooling mama ready to break away from cultural norms and raise life long learners. So let kick stress to the curb, throw chaos out the door and order in some peace and simplicity…with a cup of coffee, or 3.
Jackie: Hi Cynthia!
Cynthia: Hi!
Jackie: Thanks for joining today!
Cynthia: I'm so excited to be here.
Jackie: I want to talk about deschooling today. This is something that I had never heard of in all of my years of homeschooling probably until the last year when the big homeschool boom started. When everyone started homeschooling, this word deschooling kept popping up. I would love to first really quickly hear from you and your experience with homeschooling and then we'll talk about deschooling.
Cynthia: My name is Cynthia Holt and I'm the co-founder of Learn and Live Letter which is a homeschool curriculum. I'm a homeschool mom of three. My oldest is 19 and just graduated from Community College where we live now in Virginia. Then my next one is 16 and he's in high school…homeschooled in high school and I think he's 11th grade. I always forget what grade they are! And I also have a preschooler. We start preschool homeschool this year. So I originally homeschooled in New York City and now I live in Virginia so I've got a lot of experience homeschooling in a big city and also in rural area.
Jackie: Very cool! Your youngest and your middle so far apart! I'm sure you can spend a lot of quality time with your preschooler. I'm sure they love that!
Cynthia: Yeah! It's nice. Obviously like it it wasn't always the plan to have a big gap but it gave me an opportunity to have a do over 'cause I homeschooled the two oldest from the beginning and I was in the position that a lot of parents are now where they're just trying to figure things out. But now that I've done it for so long now starting again with my youngest, there's just so much more confidence that I feel and it just makes such a huge difference.
Yeah, absolutely! I know my oldest says often…I'm your guinea pig because she sees me do things so differently. She sees my youngest and she's like, “I never would have been able to do that! You weren’t like that with me!”
Cynthia: And the reason why is 'cause we've deschooled. That's why it's so much better as time goes on!
Jackie: OK so let's talk about it. What is deschooling?
Cynthia: OK so one blogger mom defined it this way. She's “The Homeschool Mom” and her blog says, deschooling is the adjustment period a child goes through when leaving school and beginning homeschooling. But the fact is deschooling is also process that the parent must undergo. It's the adjustment period of understanding what education is and how and where we learn.
We're all so geared toward thinking that it's one particular way and what deschooling does really helps you to see that there's more than one way.
Jackie: OK so it's the child adjusting and the parents. Does this term has to do with being in the education system and coming home?
Cynthia: Sometimes. I feel like sometimes when a parent has had a child in school they have to undergo that in a very particular way and sometimes it's because you know the child will come back home and there will be this time period of transition or adjustment and maybe what that looks like is behavior that you don't really love. So maybe what it looks like is that your child doesn't want to do the lessons that you're bringing home or maybe it looks like a lack of initiative or maybe even rebellion. It could be that the child underwent trauma in school because of bullying or because of some other trauma that went on. It could be anxiety that the child has and so they're coming home and there's this behavior that the homeschool parent is now watching happen and they don't know what that means or what to do about it so that transition for a child may look like that. But even if you've never had a child in school, if you went to school then you're coming into the process with your own predisposed ideas of what education looks like. You're thinking about what your education looks like and you're thinking about how your parents parented you in that type of educational system. So even if you've never had a kid in school, you still need to deschool because really you’re deschooling yourself.
Jackie: Yes! I saw that a lot. I went to Catholic school my whole life and the one thing that really stands out to me when I think about my schooling experience…I remember the science experiments and the fun and I wanted to make sure that my kids had that and it was almost like if they didn't have those science experiments and the fun related to science, then they weren't going to be happy. That was like my thing. And yes, science experiments are fun but that's not the only way that you could bring fun into your school. So I did a lot in the beginning. I found like the best science programs and we did some great things but to the detriment of course subjects too like math and reading and it was very interesting and I think that's the way it showed up for me.
Cynthia: Yeah. And I think that really with the adult, what it comes down to is it's just doing a lot of mental work trying to figure out what your mindset is when you think about education. And so it's really about asking yourself some questions questions like…
What does learning mean to you?
What does it look like?
What do you believe your child needs?
Why do you believe that?
Do you do you trust your child?
Do you trust their input? And then if not, why don't you trust them?
Are you aware of your own pre judgements when it comes to education?
Do you need to see a grade on a piece of paper? Do you value the right answer more than their best effort and do you get frustrated when the lesson doesn't go the way you think it should go when it deviates, even if you're still learning.
If it's not the way you thought it was going to be do you get upset?
It’s important that parents just do this self analysis and really think about these things because it's going to allow them to feel empowered and self confident in the process of educating their kids.
I actually have an illustration that I think might help resonate this idea…So one of the first things I think it's important to start with is, What does education mean to you? And when I was thinking about what I was going to talk about today the idea of food and cooking is what came to my mind. So I want parents or just individuals to think about, How did you learn to cook? Did you learn from the time you were little, watching your mom and dad cook? Maybe a grandparent? Did you learn later in life as an adult, maybe watching cooking channels? Or did you just buy a bunch of cookbooks? Did you learn from youtube? Maybe you didn't learn to cook at all. Maybe all you have is a microwave and a can opener and you’re set! Maybe you go out to eat and what you're really good at is finding that really great restaurant! At the end of the day everyone has to eat and you're eating! You're feeding your family but how you got to that place of cooking and feeding your family is completely individual and there's not one way or wrong way to learn how to cook. And if you think about education that way, you're just going to be so much more successful and happy because there are lots of ways for kids to learn. There is not just one right way and if we can get that as homeschoolers, we are automatically going to be happier and more successful.
Jackie: Yes. That is like the core of the homeschooling mindset that I teach in my course, Lifeschooling Made Simple. I have a course and when I first told my my parents about the course that I was creating they're like, Oh, it's curriculum for kids? and I'm like no it's actually a mindset course. And it's something that moms may not even realize that they need until they start seeing how their years are unfolding and how they are reacting to different situations and when a lesson starts deviating away from where you would intentionally plan, how does that make you feel inside? What can you do to be able to support them in that and not make them feel like the inspiration that they had to do something different is wrong? But it takes a lot of inner work for us to come to homeschool from that place of peace and to be OK with all of those things happening so I love that you said that.
Cynthia: I think children learn innately that there's more than one way to do things. It's really us that comes to the table with the baggage.
Jackie: Yes! And as a teacher in the classroom when I taught my fifth graders, I would have to show them one math problem and teach them three different ways to come up with the answer. And then the kids would have to choose the way that they felt was the easiest way for them to understand and for some kids, they were like bored to tears because they were like OK I already know how to do this problem but now I have to sit there and learn about the three different ways and you know for other kids they were really inspired by that and they were like, “Oh wow! There are other kids that would think that way?! I would never think that way!”
So when you have that individual time to be able to go through and spend more time on something that is really intriguing to a child and spend more time on that, you can and if they're not interested and they're like OK I know this, I already know the answer and move on and they want to move on to a different subject like math, for example, then you can.
Cynthia: Yeah and there are so many studies and science that backs up the fact that there are so many different ways to do things than the way a traditional school has to do things because of the way they're forced to do it. So for example, play based learning is scientifically proven to be better for elementary school kids. That means anyone under 12. But you don't see play based learning in most traditional schools, especially ones that are worried about funding. There are also tons of studies that prove that math and movement actually have activity in their brain happening at the same time and those two things probably should go together but again you don't really have that opportunity to do that unless you're homeschooled. And testing don't even get me started! There are so many studies that show that testing does not actually help kids progress especially in the younger years and yet again like if you're in a traditionally formatted school, it's very hard to get away from them.
So there are just so many advantages to homeschooling and if you don't keep putting yourself back into a school box of well this is how school doesn't so this is how we're going to do it then you're just going to be so much more successful.
Jackie: Yeah absolutely! So if someone is realizing and they're listening to this podcast and they're like OK I'm feeling tension and I'm feeling like things are not right. I think I want to deschool. I want to unlearn everything and and start fresh but what would you suggest that they do. How can they begin deschooling?
Cynthia: I think the first step starts with talking with your child about what they want to learn and then thinking about what you want the year to be and thinking about what your goals are for the year. And when you have an older child, especially one that has opinions, and you ask them, “What do you want to learn?” If they've been in school, they may not know what to do with that kind of question. They may not understand that type of freedom so you might have to guide them in that thought process and just talk to them about their interests. Write down what they want and show them how you're going to facilitate their interests. You're going to try to find ways to teach them what they want to learn and make it about them.
And secondly, I would say it's really important that if you find that looking for curriculum that supports your goals. If you choose curriculum look for something that's hands on if you know your kid is a tactile learner. Look for something outdoors if your kid is a child that really likes to spend time outside. There are math programs. There are reading programs. There are all sorts of nature programs that help you facilitate the education that is right for your family so really think outside the box.
Jackie: The time investment that it would take to really create that homeschool experience that everyone feels OK with can sometimes be daunting. you know? That feeling like OK I know this isn't working out but I feel like I don't have the time to put into that. I feel like I don't have the time or I don't know where to start to even consider what our goals are because I have so much on my mind…I've talked about the the feeling where everything is just buzzing in your head and you don't know what to do first and how often that happens. Because we put on and put on so many responsibilities on ourselves that really should not be there. We say yes to things that we really should not say yes to and then we're not really able to give our best to our kids and homeschooling is not just about their education. It's about parenting them. I think that deschooling really puts the connection peace as the priority which is what we really all want, you know. You want to be able to have that relationship with your kids.
Cynthia: Yeah and it also puts the value back on things that we typically don't think about when we think of education but that is part of homeschooling. So you know, you can focus on things like life skills and family values and building personality, building your focus on things that are not part of curriculum at all and things that fold into your day very naturally and when you are not thinking in terms of how things are done in school, then you're able to see that these things are naturally built into your family and now you learn to value them because you realize that they're just as important as your child learning to read. And they're just as important as then learning proper grammar.
Jackie: Yes! Thank you for all of that! I feel like that is just a good summary of this buzzword that's been all over the internet lately. I think I'm a little biased because I follow a lot of homeschooling pages but if you've never heard of deschooling it is definitely just a fancy word for the process of re-learning what you thought about school and what your kids think school should be like. This has been really really helpful so thank you for sharing that!
Cynthia: I think it's also important to know that for me, even after 15 years, I'm still going through this process and so it's not like you should put all this expectation on yourself. Don't feel like you have to figure out homeschooling the first year. No one does! It's a continuous process and that's OK. So back to what you said...As far as like you don't have a lot of time. You don't have to have it all figured out. Just do a little at a time.
Jackie: Yeah and you have to look at your child's life…you have 18 years with them. You have to think of it as a whole and I think we're always thinking time as like we only have this amount of time each day and now they're in 3rd grade and 4th grade and 5th grade and then what are we gonna do and I think it’s depending on where you live too…You see what am I supposed to be covering in this particular grade and that causes a lot of tension and inner stress. Reporting, end of the year testing and things like that so it can be challenging but it doesn't have to be over complicated and hard if you are really leaning into what they thrive in and the way that they thrive, it will change everything! So thank you! I would love for you to share your curriculum.
Cynthia: Learn and Live Letter is a combination of new and curated curriculum. What we do is you subscribe to a newsletter. The newsletter provides you lessons that are unit based studies and our services are for ages 3 to 11. So the unit studies are different themes and through those themes children will learn history, science, phonetic awareness, math skills, life skills, music, art, and it just takes a natural progression depending on the topic so it's very hands on and play based. We encourage parents to present these ideas to their children through beautiful rich literature and because we're secular and eclectic, we just borrow from what we think are some of the best ideas out there. For example, we love Charlotte Mason style and philosophy because she values books and children's books and really wonderful literature so we definitely borrow from that idea. We also like how she approaches writing. Personally I feel like there is a little bit of the wrong emphasis on writing. I listened to Susan Wise Bauer. She's from the well trained mind, She's the author. I was listening to her at a conference one time and she sort of like blew my mind. I had one of those like ah ha moments when she said, children are at the age where when they're being taught how to write are being asked to be composers and if we think about writing the way we think about music a child who learns how to play music will learn the notes, will learn how to copy other people's music, but imagine if you're trying to teach your child how to play the piano and the expectation is that they are a composer and that's obviously unrealistic when it comes to music and that was her approach to writing. That is the classical approach to writing where before you can expect a child to write from themselves and be this natural composer, they must first learn functionality of writing and so that's one of the things that we borrow. Also we love Montessori because it's so hands on so we borrow a lot of their philosophy for writing and for math, especially math, I feel like Montessori math is wonderful because everything is tactile. Everything has value. So we love that our unit studies also borrow from some of my own personal experience so like my kids, when we lived in New York City we went to the MET for a class that they did called Start with Art. It’s amazing program that they did where little kids three to six years old stand in front of the museum and get exposure to all this fine art and they would talk to them, not like you would expect, but they learn art history and such at a young age so I took what we did at the MET and we've created that in our unit study. And you'd be surprised…every single one of our 36 units has an art piece, a fine art piece, that a child gets to look at and obviously they're little. They're not gonna necessarily have this amazing art history knowledge by doing this unit study but they have a foundation they're gonna look at that art. They're going to know the name of the artist and they're going to do a craft that matches the style so that's just our approach to unit studies. It's getting kids to try lots of things, to learn lots of things. We encourage parents to do the thing that works for them and if it doesn’t leave it alone and walk away and it's OK.
Jackie: That's really cool! I love that. So would you say this this curriculum is eclectic? And eclectic just basically means that, it comes from all different philosophies.
Cynthia: Yes. And another big thing that we try to do is give parents support and education and guidance so we have tons of support for them along the way to really build up their confidence because we know it's hard. Like we've been there. We’re in it. So it's just a support for you as the parent to also feel like it's OK that it's hard 'cause we know.
Jackie: If you are listening and you are currently doing doing a curriculum and you feel like you're listening to this and you're feeling pulled to switch over just because you've had a few bad days…I just I want to encourage you please make sure that you are not impulsively switching because this sounds amazing. You have to really be careful to choose what you want to do based on what your family truly needs. Now I always say I don't like pushing curriculum. I think it's great to be exposed to it but be very careful. I think this sounds amazing and I'm definitely looking into this for my 3 year old but I don't have anything for her yet so I feel like you know, that's a natural thing for me to just start researching but I know that homeschool moms, when they hear something that sounds great and they switch over, they can cause a lot of unnecessary stress so if you're currently do something and you feel like if you can add more, I think this is a great option if it works for you.
Cynthia: So yeah it's hard. I feel like it's a two fold thing. When you're choosing curriculum it's important that you find something that aligns with your goals and when I talked to people about just in general finding any curriculum, don't think that because it works for someone else, it's automatically gonna work for you. It's important that you understand yourself and understand your child and their needs and find something that matches that and like we said before, that is in line with your family goals.
Jackie: Thank you so so much! I know this has been super helpful. I can't wait to check out your curriculum. I'm going to add it in the show notes. What is your Instagram handle? Yes! It's Learn and Live Letter on Instagram and Facebook, but we're a lot more active on Instagram. And we've got obviously a website that has all of this information as well. Learnandliveletter.com Thank you again for joining.
Cynthia: Thank you for having me!
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